PMS to PCI

I've just been reading my PMS handbook and it says that if the PMS is ever wound down, and all investers paid, the surplus money will go to the PCI

I wonder what will happen if it is wound down and ivestors only get a percentage of what they have invested.......will the PCI then pay the extra ???


As always, the silence from the PCI is deafening

I assume everyone got their letter on Friday

To confirm the amount they have invested in the PMS ?

Naming and Shaming part 2

Seems i'm not the only one with the idea about naming and shaming.

Lets not forget, the PMS is only in trouble for one reason, and one reason only, and that is because of the people who withdrew all their money and putting their faith in the government over the church.
Name and shame the people who bought the PMS down



Pity the PMS quitters are not named – cleric vious
Published Date: 20 December 2008
A SENIOR Presbyterian minister has backed a fellow cleric who rebuked Church members for hastily withdrawing their money from the Presbyterian Mutual Society (PMS), thus forcing it into administration.
The Rev Brian Kennaway, who has been a minister for more than 30 years, yesterday came out in support of the Rev Dr Alan Russell, who denounced investors who withdrew money for being just as greedy and selfish as anyone else in society.In sharp criticism of those who took their money out of the PMS during the run on the society’s funds Dr Russell, writing in the Presbyterian Herald, held that because of their actions secular society would ignore the Church when it quoted what the Bible says about money.Dr Russell said that those who withdrew their money had decided to trust in the Government rather than in their fellow Presbyterians.Mr Kennaway, a minister in Crumlin, said: “There’s a strong element of truth in that.“In Phillipians chapter 2, verse 6, Paul says: ‘Look after not only your own interests, but also the interests of others’.

Name and Shame

It would be intersting to see a list of names of people who withdrew a large sum of money in the weeks leading up to the PMS' collapse.

How many ministers names would be on it do you think ?

Thoughts ???

newsletter December 19th

Cleric's fury over collapse of society

The Rev Dr Alan Russell

Published Date: 19 December 2008

A SENIOR Presbyterian minister has savaged fellow members for bringing the Presbyterian Mutual Society (PMS) "to its knees".

In a stinging rebuke to those members of the Church who withdrew their money in the run on the society's funds, the Rev Dr Alan Russell attacked them for being just as greedy and selfish as anyone else in society and said that they had tarnished the Church's credibility.

Amid growing anger at how £300 million of Presbyterians' money came to be frozen, the Rev Russell, a Presbyterian minister for almost 30 years and Clerk of Ards Presbytery, was damning in his criticism of the Presbyterians who hastily withdrew their money in panic.

Writing in the Presbyterian Herald, the Church's official magazine, Dr Russell said: "This issue is more than financial – it's moral and spiritual.

"The mutual society was formed by Presbyterians, run by Presbyterians, invested in and borrowed from by Presbyterians and brought to its knees by Presbyterians.

"There was no one else involved."

The Ballywalter minister said that Presbyterians had to face up to their central role in the crisis: "In financial terms, the society was as near to a closed system as you can get.

There was no link to the stock market and an absolute undertaking not to speculate with the money.

"In other words, a significant number of people came to the conclusion that it was better to trust the Government than their fellow Presbyterians."

In the closely-argued article, Dr Russell said that the Church's voice on financial matters would be ignored because of how some of its members had acted.

"When it comes to money, the general public will conclude that Presbyterians are just as greedy, insecure, opportunistic, selfish and me-first as anybody in the community," he said.

"Those outside the Church certainly won't take us seriously when we quote what the Bible has to say about money.

"We'll wince with embarrassment as the world dismisses us as hypocrites who secretly sneer along with the Pharisees about the financial naivety of Jesus."

A former convenor of the Presbyterian Ethical Committee and the current convenor of the denomination's Communications Administration Committee, Dr Russell is the first senior Presbyterian to publicly denounce the individuals whose actions caused the crisis.

On November 11, PMS depositors were stopped from withdrawing their money and six days later the society went into administration, with the society's 10,000 depositors told that it would be months before they saw their money.

Yesterday, Ulster Unionist leader Sir Reg Empey said that he had written to Downing Street about the crisis.

The Prime Minister has now received correspondence from senior members of three Northern Ireland parties calling for the Government to guarantee PMS deposits – DUP Finance Minister Nigel Dodds, SDLP leader Mark Durkan and Sir Reg.

Sir Reg said: "In my letter to both the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, I asked what measures the Government was going to take to secure the investments of those who have been adversely affected."

thoughts ?????

Can you guys post on the main blog, or can you only respond to posts by leaving comments ??

the herald

Credit Crunches Again, by Alan RussellIt seemed like a very good idea at the time, back in 1982. Why not form a society restricted to members of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland where people could save their spare cash and other church members could take out loans. After all, it's the kind of thing that you would expect a Christian community to do for each other, bearing one another's burdens, the strong supporting the weak, church members in community helping each other out.It was all for the benefit of Presbyterian Church members and no-one else was involved. So why has the Presbyterian Mutual project ended in tears for many peoplewho can't access the money that they need? It is just another financialcasualty of the credit crisis, a victim of the impersonal forces of economics that are beyond our control.This issue is more than financial ­ it's moral and spiritual. Let's remember, that the Mutual Society was formed by Presbyterians, run by Presbyterians, invested in and borrowed from by Presbyterians and brought to its knees by Presbyterians. There was no-one else involved. So what happened? People got nervous and withdrew their money because they were told that the Mutual Society has not been covered by the government financial guarantee.Historically, I imagine this will be seen as corporate Presbyterian financial stupidity. In financial terms, the society was as near to a closed system as you can get. There was no link to the stock market and an absolute undertaking not to speculate with the money. In other words a significant number of people came to the conclusion that it was better to trust the government than their fellow Presbyterians. Those individuals (and, please God, not congregations) who thought they would move in quickly to withdraw their money, just to be on the safe side, obviously didn't care about the consequences of their actions for others including the possibility that they might cause hardship and hurt. No thought of bearing one another's burdens here.I'm sure that the majority of those who invested with the Presbyterian Mutual Society did so because they liked the idea of their money being available for other Presbyterians to finance their businesses, repair and extend their church property or even change the car ­ as well as the good return they were getting for their savings. However, that's not the message we have sent out to surrounding society. When it comes to money thegeneral public will conclude that Presbyterians are just as greedy, insecure, opportunistic, selfish and me-first as anybody in the community.Those outside the church certainly won't take us seriously when we quote what the Bible has to say about money. We'll wince with embarrassment as the world dismisses us as hypocrites who secretly sneer along with the Pharisees about the financial naivety of Jesus. Critics of Christianity will take it for granted that Presbyterians treat Christ's teaching as irrelevant in the real world where only the shrewd and ruthless prosper.Indeed, could it be true that too many of us think that Mammon is entitled to his little shrine on the mantelpiece of our home or even in a corner of the church office?Will our grandchildren look back with regret at how much our witness for Christ lost credibility because Presbyterians blew the chance of showing the world how Christians could show trust and solidarity in hard financial times? Or will they give thanks for a Christian community that learned hard lessons about money and turned, in repentance, to take the message of their Lord seriously? It's up to us as to what the answers will be.This article by Rev Dr Alan Russell, who is minister of Ballywalter Presbyterian Church, first appeared in the Presbyterian Herald (December 2008/January 2009 edition